Classic Books Store
01. The Epistles of St. Clement of Rome and St. Ignatius of Antioch (Ancient Christian Writers)
RRP: $24.95
Our Price: $16.47
You Save: $ 8.48 ( 34% )
Usually ships in 24 hours
Manufacturer: Paulist Press
Author: James A. Kleist
Publisher: Paulist Press
Average Customer Rating:
Our Price: $16.47
You Save: $ 8.48 ( 34% )
Usually ships in 24 hours
Manufacturer: Paulist Press
Author: James A. Kleist
Publisher: Paulist Press
Average Customer Rating:
Experimental feature: Order 01. The Epistles of St. Clement of Rome and St. Ignatius of Antioch (Ancient Christian Writers) from the UK, Canada, Germany or France by clicking an appropriate flag below.
Some items available at Amazon.com are not available in all countries.
Some items available at Amazon.com are not available in all countries.
01. The Epistles of St. Clement of Rome and St. Ignatius of Antioch (Ancient Christian Writers) Description
Binding: Hardcover
EAN: 9780809100385
ISBN: 080910038X
Label: Paulist Press
Manufacturer: Paulist Press
Number Of Items: 1
Book Pages: 176
Publication Date: 1978-01-01
Publisher: Paulist Press
Studio: Paulist Press
EAN: 9780809100385
ISBN: 080910038X
Label: Paulist Press
Manufacturer: Paulist Press
Number Of Items: 1
Book Pages: 176
Publication Date: 1978-01-01
Publisher: Paulist Press
Studio: Paulist Press
Editorial Review of 01. The Epistles of St. Clement of Rome and St. Ignatius of Antioch (Ancient Christian Writers)
St. Clement's epistle, written c. 96, is called the first epistle, and is a model of a pastoral letter. The epistles of St. Ignatius, Bishop of Smyrna at the beginning of the second century, are addressed to six Christian communities.
Customer Reviews of 01. The Epistles of St. Clement of Rome and St. Ignatius of Antioch (Ancient Christian Writers)
Customer Rating:
Review Summary: Good translation with helpful but limited commentary
Review: This is a wonderfully full and rich translation of St. Clement's letter to the Romans and St. Ignatius' 7 letters. With them we are treated to the doctrines of the early church on the structure and authority of church offices. There are few works that challenge the modern presuppositions of the early church like these of the earliest Christian tradition. This translation is ideal for sharing in a group study for their clarity letting the early fathers speak for themselves with limited interjection of commentary. Each section provides an introduction giving a brief outline of the lives of Clement and Ignatius. Each epistle is salted with note references. The notes are kept apart at the end of each epistle so that you can easily read the epistles without being distracted by lengthy footnotes on each page. The notes are there at the end of each epistle ready to shed more light on a particular passage without demanding notice at every turn of the page. The format is ideal for group or personal study. Very highly recommended.
Customer Rating:
Review Summary: Great Research
Review: Read the book. I'm sick and tired of writing reviews and having Amazon knock me off for no good reason (my reviews are never lengthy). This is a scholarly work and not for everyone. If you want to push back the walls of ignorance, read it. If you want to be amused, buy a different book. I apologize for the short and snippy nature of this review.
Customer Rating:
Review Summary: epistles of st clement and st ignatious
Review: this 1946 inaugural volume of the "ancient christian writers" series is useful for anyone interested in the challanges faced by the early catholic church. dr james kleist has created a readable source of the original greek epistles of st clement and st ignatius. they show the great concern the early church fathers had regarding church orthodoxy and organization. to be successful, they both wrote, all local church members must obey their bishop without question, and without public disorder. this obediance extends down the line from bishop to presbyter to deacon. mindless obediance is the rule. in addition, any hint of heresy must be avoided. there is no suggestion that christians should try to pursuade heretics from their folly; the better course is avoidance of contact altogether. in fact, there is no ammunition in these epistles that could be used to combat heretical arguments.
the events of christ's passion and resurrection are simply recited, with repeated emphasis on the human reality of christ; this to debunk docetism. there is no attempt to offer any deeper philosophical or psychological insights regarding the christian message. one simply accepts it as true. as such, these epistles are ultimately unsatisfying to the modern reader.
we all learned the story of christ in sunday school, and the adult reader will find nothing new in these epistles. there is only the repeated emphasis on church hierarchy, which supposedly recreates the heavenly hierarchy of god and jesus and the apostles; good advice for a struggleing ancient community; irrelevant for a developed 21st century community.
dr kleist added voluminous detailed and helpful notes. he points out the great difficulty in translating the exact sense of the original greek, and the multiple meanings the original words can have. he shows that the choices made by a translator can significantly affect the meaning of the final translation. he also cross references allusions and direct quotes to their origins in scripture, which allows the reader to see any changes the epistle writers made.
finally, dr kleist adds personal biographical notes for each writer. this was especially poignant in the case of st ignatius, who was writing during the course of his death journey to martyrdom. this old man's thoughts of his impending violent death, a death actively sought in imitation of christ, offer an insight into the mind and soul of a great church father. the calmness of st ignatius, rather than his advice on church organization, offer inspiraton to any modern reader, regardless of faith. this book ought to be on the must read list of any christian that wants to be well educated in his faith.
Customer Rating:
Review Summary: Thought Provoking
Review: I enjoyed this book and recommend it, if for no other reason than to be informed about the thinking of early Christians. However, I disagree with the judgment echoed by some reviewers and stated by the translator that "Clement, representing the Occident, and Ignatius, representing the Orient, are in agreement regarding the form of Christianity which they profess. The Christian Church shows the same face, whether seen through the eyes of Clement, or those of Ignatius." (p.7) On my reading Clement and Ignatius are quite different. Clement's writing clearly stems from an understanding of the gospel, specifically in the manner that Paul outlines, and a high view of Scripture. Consider the following statement by Clement. "So we, too, who have been called by His will in Christ Jesus, are sanctified not through ourselves, or through our wisdom or understanding or piety or any works we perform in holiness of heart, but through the faith through which Almighty God has sanctified all men from the beginning of time. To Him be glory forever and evermore. Amen." (p. 28)
In contrast, Ignatius extrapolates significantly beyond Scripture. The following, from Ignatius's letter to the Magnesians, would have been most out of place in Clement's letter. "...the bishop is to preside in the place of God, while the presbyters are to function as the council of the Apostles..." (p. 70-71) In addition, Ignatius is enamored with the ascetic ideal and seeks his own martrydom to the point that he admonishes the churches not to pray for his deliverance. This mindset is largely absent from Clement's letter. Clement's goal seems to be to bring man before his creator in praise, while Ignatius seems intent to insert mediators between God and man--forgetting that there is only one (1 Tim. 2:5).
I deducted two stars in my rating. I took off one because I feel that juxtaposing two obviously different perspectives for the purpose of making them appear similar is dishonest, and the other I took off because I found the grammar of the translation to be cumbersome. Nevertheless, I think this is a great book for all Christians to read, not just those of the Orthodox or Catholic traditions.
Customer Rating:
Review Summary: They were preserving that which was given them.
Review: Clement, bishop of Rome, was responding to reports about troubles again with those pesky Corinthian Christians. 40 years or so earlier, St. Paul had done the same. It's easy to see why for the first couple hundred years (even Eusebius, bp. of Ceasarea in Palestine considered it inspired in the early 4th century) this letter circulated with what would become the New Testament writings. His faith is apostolic as is his belief that he's merely standing in an authoritative line of men who are exhorting Christian behavior and beliefs. This letter was probably composed about the same time some of the writings of St. John were, and probably before 2 Peter and some of the pseudepigraphical Pauline literature.
This volume also shares with the reader the early 2nd century writings of Ignatius, bishop of Antioch and martyr. Again we get snapshots of early Christian communities in communion, part of the "great" Church, who submit to ecclesial authority, enjoy a sacred meal, etc.
Review Summary: Good translation with helpful but limited commentary
Review: This is a wonderfully full and rich translation of St. Clement's letter to the Romans and St. Ignatius' 7 letters. With them we are treated to the doctrines of the early church on the structure and authority of church offices. There are few works that challenge the modern presuppositions of the early church like these of the earliest Christian tradition. This translation is ideal for sharing in a group study for their clarity letting the early fathers speak for themselves with limited interjection of commentary. Each section provides an introduction giving a brief outline of the lives of Clement and Ignatius. Each epistle is salted with note references. The notes are kept apart at the end of each epistle so that you can easily read the epistles without being distracted by lengthy footnotes on each page. The notes are there at the end of each epistle ready to shed more light on a particular passage without demanding notice at every turn of the page. The format is ideal for group or personal study. Very highly recommended.
Customer Rating:
Review Summary: Great Research
Review: Read the book. I'm sick and tired of writing reviews and having Amazon knock me off for no good reason (my reviews are never lengthy). This is a scholarly work and not for everyone. If you want to push back the walls of ignorance, read it. If you want to be amused, buy a different book. I apologize for the short and snippy nature of this review.
Customer Rating:
Review Summary: epistles of st clement and st ignatious
Review: this 1946 inaugural volume of the "ancient christian writers" series is useful for anyone interested in the challanges faced by the early catholic church. dr james kleist has created a readable source of the original greek epistles of st clement and st ignatius. they show the great concern the early church fathers had regarding church orthodoxy and organization. to be successful, they both wrote, all local church members must obey their bishop without question, and without public disorder. this obediance extends down the line from bishop to presbyter to deacon. mindless obediance is the rule. in addition, any hint of heresy must be avoided. there is no suggestion that christians should try to pursuade heretics from their folly; the better course is avoidance of contact altogether. in fact, there is no ammunition in these epistles that could be used to combat heretical arguments.
the events of christ's passion and resurrection are simply recited, with repeated emphasis on the human reality of christ; this to debunk docetism. there is no attempt to offer any deeper philosophical or psychological insights regarding the christian message. one simply accepts it as true. as such, these epistles are ultimately unsatisfying to the modern reader.
we all learned the story of christ in sunday school, and the adult reader will find nothing new in these epistles. there is only the repeated emphasis on church hierarchy, which supposedly recreates the heavenly hierarchy of god and jesus and the apostles; good advice for a struggleing ancient community; irrelevant for a developed 21st century community.
dr kleist added voluminous detailed and helpful notes. he points out the great difficulty in translating the exact sense of the original greek, and the multiple meanings the original words can have. he shows that the choices made by a translator can significantly affect the meaning of the final translation. he also cross references allusions and direct quotes to their origins in scripture, which allows the reader to see any changes the epistle writers made.
finally, dr kleist adds personal biographical notes for each writer. this was especially poignant in the case of st ignatius, who was writing during the course of his death journey to martyrdom. this old man's thoughts of his impending violent death, a death actively sought in imitation of christ, offer an insight into the mind and soul of a great church father. the calmness of st ignatius, rather than his advice on church organization, offer inspiraton to any modern reader, regardless of faith. this book ought to be on the must read list of any christian that wants to be well educated in his faith.
Customer Rating:
Review Summary: Thought Provoking
Review: I enjoyed this book and recommend it, if for no other reason than to be informed about the thinking of early Christians. However, I disagree with the judgment echoed by some reviewers and stated by the translator that "Clement, representing the Occident, and Ignatius, representing the Orient, are in agreement regarding the form of Christianity which they profess. The Christian Church shows the same face, whether seen through the eyes of Clement, or those of Ignatius." (p.7) On my reading Clement and Ignatius are quite different. Clement's writing clearly stems from an understanding of the gospel, specifically in the manner that Paul outlines, and a high view of Scripture. Consider the following statement by Clement. "So we, too, who have been called by His will in Christ Jesus, are sanctified not through ourselves, or through our wisdom or understanding or piety or any works we perform in holiness of heart, but through the faith through which Almighty God has sanctified all men from the beginning of time. To Him be glory forever and evermore. Amen." (p. 28)
In contrast, Ignatius extrapolates significantly beyond Scripture. The following, from Ignatius's letter to the Magnesians, would have been most out of place in Clement's letter. "...the bishop is to preside in the place of God, while the presbyters are to function as the council of the Apostles..." (p. 70-71) In addition, Ignatius is enamored with the ascetic ideal and seeks his own martrydom to the point that he admonishes the churches not to pray for his deliverance. This mindset is largely absent from Clement's letter. Clement's goal seems to be to bring man before his creator in praise, while Ignatius seems intent to insert mediators between God and man--forgetting that there is only one (1 Tim. 2:5).
I deducted two stars in my rating. I took off one because I feel that juxtaposing two obviously different perspectives for the purpose of making them appear similar is dishonest, and the other I took off because I found the grammar of the translation to be cumbersome. Nevertheless, I think this is a great book for all Christians to read, not just those of the Orthodox or Catholic traditions.
Customer Rating:
Review Summary: They were preserving that which was given them.
Review: Clement, bishop of Rome, was responding to reports about troubles again with those pesky Corinthian Christians. 40 years or so earlier, St. Paul had done the same. It's easy to see why for the first couple hundred years (even Eusebius, bp. of Ceasarea in Palestine considered it inspired in the early 4th century) this letter circulated with what would become the New Testament writings. His faith is apostolic as is his belief that he's merely standing in an authoritative line of men who are exhorting Christian behavior and beliefs. This letter was probably composed about the same time some of the writings of St. John were, and probably before 2 Peter and some of the pseudepigraphical Pauline literature.
This volume also shares with the reader the early 2nd century writings of Ignatius, bishop of Antioch and martyr. Again we get snapshots of early Christian communities in communion, part of the "great" Church, who submit to ecclesial authority, enjoy a sacred meal, etc.